1 1 TOWN BOARD 2 TOWN OF BRUNSWICK, NEW YORK 3 -------------------------------------------------------- 4 HUDSON HILLS PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT (PDD) 5 APPLICATION 6 -------------------------------------------------------- 7 STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF PUBLIC HEARING conducted 8 in the above-entitled matter on the 3rd day of August, 9 2005, at the Brunswick Family Community Center, 10 Brunswick, New York, commencing at 6:30 p.m. 11 12 TOWN OF BRUNSWICK BOARD MEMBERS: 13 Supervisor PHILIP HERRINGTON 14 Councilwoman CAROLYN ABRAMS 15 Councilmen PATRICK POLETO 16 SAM SALVI 17 Clerk SUSAN QUEST-SHERMAN 18 19 APPEARANCES: 20 ANDREW W. GILCHRIST, ESQ. - Town Board Legal Advisor 21 MARK KESTNER - Kestner Engineering 22 MARK GREGORY - Transportation Concepts 23 WILLIAM HOBLOCK, ESQ. - Capital District Properties, LLC 24 MARVIN CHUDNOFF - Capital District Properties, LLC 2 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: At this point, I'd 3 like to ask our town clerk to read the notice of 4 the public hearing. 5 THE CLERK: "Notice is hereby given that a 6 public hearing will be held by the Town Board of 7 the Town of Brunswick on Wednesday, August 3rd, 8 2005, at 6:30 p.m. at the Brunswick Community 9 Center, Keyes Lane, Troy, New York, pursuant to 10 Section 10 of the Zoning Code of the Town of 11 Brunswick and also pursuant to the State 12 Environmental Quality Review Act and its 13 implementing regulations at 6 NYCRR Part 617, to 14 allow public comment on the application submitted 15 by Capital District Properties, LLC for the 16 proposed Hudson Hills apartment complex consisting 17 of 1,116 apartment units within 77 buildings, and 18 located on 216 acres bounded by Route 7 to the 19 south, North Lake Avenue to the north and Lord 20 Avenue to the west. 21 "The property is currently zoned 22 agricultural, A-40. The application has been 23 submitted pursuant to Section 10 of the Zoning 24 Code of the Town of Brunswick for a Planned 3 1 Development District, PDD. A Draft Environmental 2 Impact Statement, DEIS, has been prepared by 3 Capital District Properties, LLC for this action 4 pursuant to SEQRA. The Town Board of the Town of 5 Brunswick, as SEQRA Lead Agency, has accepted the 6 DEIS as adequate for public review, and a notice 7 of completion has been filed. The public hearing 8 will allow comment on the PDD application and 9 DEIS. Copies of the application materials and 10 DEIS are available for public inspection during 11 regular business hours at the following locations: 12 Town of Brunswick Town Office, 308 Town Office 13 Road, Troy, New York, 12180. 14 "In addition, a copy of the DEIS is also 15 available for public inspection during regular 16 business hours at the Brunswick Community Library, 17 605 Brunswick Road, Eagle Mills, New York, 12180. 18 All interested persons will be heard at the public 19 hearing." Dated June 24th, 2005 and published 20 June 27, 2005 in the Troy Record. 21 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thanks, Sue. 22 This public hearing is for Hudson Hills's 23 Planned Development District application. The 24 Brunswick Town Board is serving as a lead agency 4 1 under the State Environmental Quality Review Act 2 as well as reviewing the PDD application. 3 This public hearing is being held to receive 4 comments on both the PDD application itself and 5 also the Draft Environmental Impact Statement 6 submitted by the applicant. Your comments on the 7 overall application as well as the DEIS will be 8 accepted and considered by this Board. 9 When a Town Board is reviewing the Planned 10 Development District application and is serving as 11 lead agency, several other public agencies are 12 involved in this process, including City of Troy, 13 Rensselaer County, New York State agencies, 14 Federal Army Corps of Engineers. The Town 15 distributed full copies of the Draft Environmental 16 Impact Statement to all of the individual members 17 of the Town Board, everyone on the Brunswick 18 Planning Board, Brunswick Zoning Board, Brunswick 19 Town department heads, including the building 20 department, water department, highway department, 21 town attorney, town assessor all received those 22 DEIS's. 23 The City of Troy, also Rensselaer County 24 Health Department, Rensselaer County Sewer 5 1 District, Rensselaer County Highway Department, 2 Rensselaer County Planning Department, New York 3 State Department of Environmental Conservation, 4 New York State Department of Health, the New York 5 State Department of Transportation is involved. 6 The New York State Office of Parks, 7 Recreation and Historic Preservation, the fire 8 districts and school districts also received the 9 DEIS. 10 The Town Board will be receiving and 11 considering comments from every one of these 12 agencies that I just mentioned to you. 13 The applicant will make a presentation 14 concerning the application and then the Board will 15 open the public hearing for your comments. There 16 is a microphone up in front and we ask that all 17 speakers use the microphone so your comments can 18 be heard clearly. We ask that anyone who makes a 19 comment provide their name and address for the 20 record. 21 The Town Board has retained a stenographer 22 who will be making a transcript of the hearing and 23 that transcript will become part of the official 24 record. 6 1 The Town Board has retained an independent 2 engineering consultant to review this and attorney 3 who the applicant is paying for -- you aren't 4 paying for them -- to assist the Town Board in 5 review of the application. 6 The Town Board has not made any final 7 decisions, positive or negative, on this 8 application and will not do so until it receives 9 and fully considers all of your comments -- and, 10 hopefully, all of you know us well enough to know 11 that is a true statement -- as well as comments 12 from all other public agencies. And I want you to 13 be assured that this Board will listen to your 14 comments. 15 Now, at this point, what I'd like to do is 16 turn it over to Andrew Gilchrist who will update 17 everyone on the procedural status for this 18 application. 19 MR. GILCHRIST: This application has been 20 submitted by Capital District Properties. It is 21 under Article 10 of the Code. It's for a Planned 22 Development District, as you know. The 23 application was submitted several months ago. 24 This Board, as Supervisor Herrington just 7 1 reviewed, is reviewing both the planning 2 or -- strike that -- the PDD application, that is 3 a planning and zoning decision by this Board, as 4 well as all of the environmental impacts 5 associated with this action, and that's under the 6 State Environmental Quality Review Act and this 7 Board is serving as lead agency. 8 As you may recall back in June, after several 9 months of having reviewed the Environmental Impact 10 Statement that the applicant submitted to the 11 Town, the Town Board deemed that document adequate 12 for public review and comment and, as Supervisor 13 Herrington said, filed a notice of completion. 14 That allows the public an opportunity to comment 15 both on the Draft EIS, the Environmental Impact 16 Statement, as well as the underlying PDD 17 application. 18 Your comments on whether this use is 19 appropriate from a planning and zoning perspective 20 for that site, that's the purpose of this hearing. 21 I have to reiterate something I said in June, 22 which is when a DEIS is deemed complete and 23 adequate for someone to review, it does not mean 24 that this Board, both as lead agency and Town 8 1 Board on the PDD, has determined that the 2 application is approvable in its current form. 3 What that means when you file a notice of 4 completion is that the document is adequate for 5 public review and comment. Supervisor Herrington 6 just stated that this Board has not made a 7 determination, either positive or negative, on 8 this application at this time. Legally, I've 9 advised them that they can't do that until they 10 consider all the comments received both from 11 members of the public tonight as well as all the 12 other public involved agencies. 13 Supervisor Herrington listed several, 14 municipal, city, county, state. I'll also add for 15 the record that the Federal Army Corps of 16 Engineers is involved as well. Until this Board 17 receives comments on this document, on the Draft 18 Environmental Impact Statement, as well as the 19 underlying application, they will not be making a 20 determination on this application. The law 21 requires this Board to consider and take what's 22 called a hard look at the issues raised in this 23 application and they will do so both with the aid 24 of technical consultants -- as you may know, 9 1 Kestner Engineering has been retained to review 2 this. 3 MR. KESTNER: Mark Kestner. 4 MR. GILCHRIST: Thank you. 5 (Continuing) -- to review this on a technical 6 basis from an engineering perspective. Mark has 7 also retained Mark Gregory of Transportation 8 Concepts and he'll be reviewing the traffic 9 impacts on the application. 10 And I'm reviewing this from a legal 11 perspective as well to make sure all the 12 requirements under the SEQRA regulations and under 13 the Town Code are adhered to in this review. 14 Again, this is an opportunity for members of 15 the public to express their comments, their 16 thoughts on the impact statement which has been 17 available for public inspection as well as the 18 overall application which, likewise, has been on 19 file at the Town Hall and available for public 20 review. 21 And with that, I'll give it back to 22 Supervisor Herrington to open the public hearing. 23 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thank you, counsel. 24 At this point, I'd like to call Mr. Chudnoff. 10 1 Would you like to make a presentation, Marvin? 2 MR. CHUDNOFF: Yes, thank you. My name is 3 Marvin Chudnoff and I am the managing partner of 4 Capital District Properties -- 5 UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Can we allow people 6 standing outside to come in? It will just take a 7 minute. 8 (Pause in the proceedings.) 9 MR. CHUDNOFF: I think that's an interesting 10 segue into what I think is somewhat unorthodox. 11 Typically -- and this meeting tonight is solely to 12 invite the comments of the general public relative 13 to this particular document over here, and I will 14 hand that off to my associate, Bill Hoblock, in a 15 few moments. But I think because, as what the 16 Supervisor just said is very true, I have never 17 seen this many people at the Brunswick meeting and 18 I think it's unfair for you not to see what we are 19 talking about. 20 I'd like to spend maybe five minutes and give 21 you a quick overview of what our dreams and what 22 our vision is for Brunswick and the immediate 23 community and then I'm going to just move directly 24 to Bill Hoblock. Then, we'll talk directly about 11 1 the EIS and I believe it then goes to the public. 2 I've been up here for 40 years. For 40 3 years, I have been a, in quotes, developer, a real 4 estate builder, a real estate owner. I've been a 5 developer throughout the entire United States. As 6 I say, again, I've been in the Capital District, 7 primarily Watervliet, Latham, Colonie, for the 8 last 40 years. 9 In the last five or six years, as it has been 10 obvious, I think, to most of you, there's been 11 significant growth in the Capital District and 12 that's growth that's coming from a whole host of 13 sources, from the educational institutions, from 14 scientific institutions. But what I think is 15 interesting is its growth that is diversifying the 16 economic labor base of the Capital District. 17 And as this has happened throughout the 18 entire United States, that kind of growth requires 19 housing for people. And in our country, housing 20 generally takes one out of three forms. And if 21 you travel anywhere throughout the United States, 22 within one or two percentile points, you will find 23 that a third of the population have stakes in 24 single-family dwellings, a third in condominium, 12 1 high-rise, co-op and a third in multi-family 2 rentals. 3 What we have tried to do, and which I will 4 show you in a moment, is kind of take the best of 5 both worlds. We believe you have a beautiful 6 community here. We believe that the site is a 7 beautiful site line. And what we have tried to do 8 is permit the economic flexibility for people that 9 live here and people that choose to live here to 10 be able to have the option of having rental 11 housing without making a major monetary commitment 12 and, at the same time, to permit them to move into 13 first-class, top-drawer, relatively expensive, a 14 thousand to $1,600 a month, apartment units that 15 are built more like condominiums than they are 16 built as rental apartments. 17 What we are talking about is luxury housing. 18 The site that we're talking about is the site off 19 of Hoosick by Betts Road. We have a whole series 20 of other maps. If anyone wishes to see them, we 21 will show them. 22 The buildings that we propose to build are 23 buildings that will be somewhat akin to that, but 24 that's a very poor picture. 13 1 We're building another community right now 2 which is opening up, interestingly enough, next 3 week in Latham. Two-dimensional drawings are very 4 difficult to really convey what something will 5 look like. That is being built now, as I said, in 6 Latham and you can see the difference between the 7 first picture and this picture in that this is 8 computer-generated and really shows you 9 dimensions. It shows you a court center to this. 10 It shows you a series of gabled ends. It shows 11 you a series of different shadow lines trying to 12 make housing -- and there are 14 units in this 13 particular building -- reasonably attractive for 14 people. And we do that, and we hope we succeed, 15 with shadow lines, roof lines, individual 16 entrances for each apartment and the clubhouse 17 over there. 18 This is a job similar to phase one. By the 19 way, this is 350 rental units. This is the 20 clubhouse. This will be the clubhouse that we're 21 proposing here in Brunswick. This is a luxury 22 high-rise -- a luxury low-rise multiple family 23 dwelling. 24 The rental, as I said, will range from a 14 1 thousand to $1,600 a month. Interestingly enough, 2 the demographic which we thought we were targeting 3 for this particular community, we hit right on the 4 head. About 60 percent of the people that are 5 moving in here are considered to be the term 6 empty-nesters; thus, people my age, maybe five, 7 six years younger, where their children have moved 8 out of the house. And these are existing 9 residents of the entire Colonie community who are 10 selling their homes to the new people coming in 11 and wish to stay in Colonie and wish to stay 12 in a quality community. 13 I'd like to just show you what are basically 14 the layouts of what we're talking about. By the 15 way, there's a waiting list for this right now. 16 It's opening up next week. So it's been rather 17 well received. 18 This is -- should I show it to the Board as 19 well as to the public? 20 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Show it to the 21 public. 22 MR. CHUDNOFF: This is what we propose to 23 build. This is what we build with apartments that 24 have wooden floors, carpeted floors, central air 15 1 conditioners, washers and dryers in them. We 2 built units that have multiple pane windows. 3 Every unit has a terrace. Every unit has a 4 balcony. Every unit has a separate entry. These 5 are all luxury dwellings. This unit alone is 6 about 1,600 square feet. So they're good size 7 units and we think that they are rather well done 8 and, obviously, the public in Colonie thinks the 9 same. 10 What does this mean for the community? I've 11 taken the opportunity to just put up a few bullet 12 points of where we think the community will be 13 better if this is an intelligently planned and 14 intelligently executed housing community. 15 First of all, it will permit you to have an 16 alternative to what you currently have now. There 17 is no luxury rental housing in the Brunswick 18 community today. It gives an alternative for 19 empty-nesters or young professionals coming into 20 the area to have an alternative to immediate home 21 purchase. 22 Most people that come into the area typically 23 would like to spend one, two, three, five years 24 before they graduate and many of them do graduate 16 1 up into a single-family dwelling. This 2 development will loop the town's water system from 3 Hoosick up to North Lake, which has got 4 significant operational benefits to it and 5 significant life safety benefits to it. 6 This entire development will take 10 years to 7 reach completion and during that time, we will 8 employ about 200 people during that time frame. 9 When it is completed, this job will produce about 10 $2.3 million a year in taxes to the community. 11 There will be additional revenue support for all 12 the other things that are in the community, 13 additional users. And, obviously, the new 14 residents will patronize the local businesses, 15 many of which are now coming up on Hoosick Avenue. 16 That's a very quick overview of what our 17 vision is and I'd like to turn this over to Bill 18 Hoblock and he will talk about the Environmental 19 Impact Statement itself. 20 MR. HOBLOCK: My name is Bill Hoblock. We 21 began this process about one year ago. It was 22 actually one year ago to the date. It was August 23 of last year when we submitted our original 24 application. During the last year, we have been 17 1 working very closely with not only the Town, its 2 consultants and other public agencies in what 3 began as a concept to what we're here tonight, 4 which is to discuss this, our Draft Environmental 5 Impact Statement. 6 About 50 copies have been submitted, and it 7 was mentioned earlier, to various Board members, 8 every public agency, whether involved, whether 9 interested, under SEQRA and various members of the 10 public requested it. 11 The DEIS itself discusses all the issues that 12 have been identified during the SEQRA scoping 13 process and those were the issues that were 14 identified by the public, by this Board and by all 15 public agencies. 16 The assessment included in this Draft 17 Environmental Impact Statement also includes 18 mitigation measures and alternatives that will 19 reduce or eliminate any potential significant 20 impact of the development. 21 The DEIS document itself was prepared by our 22 engineering firm, O'Brien & Gear. Jeff Ryan and 23 Gary Stewart are here tonight from O'Brien & 24 Gear and you probably have in that document itself 18 1 about a dozen different engineering disciplines 2 that have gone through all of the issues. 3 Let me hit briefly -- while this document has 4 been available to the public for about two months 5 or so, I'd like to hit briefly all of the issues 6 that were identified, as I stated, and discussed 7 in the DEIS. 8 Marvin Chudnoff had mentioned the benefit to 9 the downtown and that is discussed more in the 10 DEIS. The subject of the geology was analyzed. 11 Soils, bedrock and topography, erosion and 12 sediment control was analyzed. The cut and fill 13 analysis with respect to the earth work, 14 stormwater management was also detailed and 15 outlined. Water resources, surface water as well 16 as groundwater were analyzed in the DEIS. Air 17 quality with respect to construction vehicle 18 emissions and operation of Hudson Hills itself was 19 studied. 20 Terrestrial and aquatic ecology was detailed 21 and looked at, including vegetation, habitat and 22 species, flora, fauna and wetlands. Traffic was 23 a major issue that came up on day one, so a very 24 detailed and exhaustive study was done by Crate 19 1 Manning Engineering. Tom Johnson from Crate 2 Manning is here tonight. And that study was done 3 in conjunction with the Town as well as the New 4 York State Department of Transportation. 5 Land use and zoning was studied. Community 6 resources were analyzed in the DEIS. Utilities, 7 every type of utilities, water, sewer, electric, 8 natural gas, telephone and cable services, 9 emergency services were looked at. Waste 10 management, the impact on public school systems, 11 recreational facilities and municipal revenues was 12 also analyzed. 13 Cultural resources were assessed in the DEIS, 14 including a viewshed analysis which was complete 15 and attached to the document itself. Historical 16 and archeological resources are also assessed. 17 Noise and commune character, including the impact 18 on surrounding property values, potential 19 population and growth inducement aspects of Hudson 20 Hills were also assessed. 21 Apart from that, apart from all of the issues 22 and the sub-issues that go along with all of 23 those, alternatives to the development as proposed 24 are assessed in the DEIS. These alternatives 20 1 include not only alternative configurations of 2 development but as well as alternative scales or 3 size. 4 And the last part of the DEIS, based on input 5 from the Town and input from the agencies and 6 working with the consultants, a cumulative impact 7 of Hudson Hills in connection with other proposed 8 developments in the area was analyzed. Based on 9 an analysis of all of these issues, the DEIS has 10 been deemed complete for public comment here 11 tonight at this meeting. Thank you. 12 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thank you, Bill. 13 Andy, do you want to maybe explain for me the 14 format here? I mean, it's not really a question 15 and answer or a debate tonight, correct? 16 MR. GILCHRIST: Yes. The format tonight, 17 this is a public hearing that invites comments to 18 be received that will be looked into by the 19 applicant as well as the Board. It's not a 20 question and answer or debate session. If the 21 applicant chooses to respond to a comment this 22 evening as you speak -- you heard their 23 consultants are here -- they can choose to do 24 that. But be advised, this is the opportunity for 21 1 both the Board as well as the applicant to hear 2 the comments. 3 You must understand that this doesn't 4 complete the review process. The applicant must 5 accept all these comments. The reason we have a 6 stenographer here to create a transcript is that 7 transcript will be submitted to the applicant. 8 That must be reviewed and all the issues raised 9 tonight as well as all the other written comments 10 that could be received must be responded to by the 11 applicant to the satisfaction of the Town Board. 12 So the purpose for tonight again is not 13 question and answer or debate, but it is the 14 opportunity to put the comments on the record that 15 the applicant will need to respond to. And the 16 other involved agencies, the other public 17 agencies, will have the opportunity to examine 18 those comments as well. 19 So, again, that's the forum. If the 20 applicant chooses to respond to a certain issue or 21 comment raised, they're certainly entitled to do 22 so, but it's not required. You must understand. 23 Don't feel that since something's not being 24 responded to, it will not be. It will be. The 22 1 law requires that it be. And there is another 2 document, yet, that needs to be submitted by the 3 applicant to respond to all of your comments and 4 it's that document that will ultimately be 5 reviewed by this Board. 6 Again, to make sure that the application's 7 complete, that document needs to be deemed 8 complete. So, again, please put all your comments 9 on the record. They could be responded to if the 10 applicant chooses but, again, it's not a question 11 and answer or debate session tonight. 12 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thank you, Andy. 13 At this point, I'd like to open it up to the 14 public. Maybe if you would come up and use the 15 microphone. What I'd like to have you do is 16 address the Board, mainly so we can hear you and 17 also so the stenographer can get your comments on 18 the record. 19 So at this point, is there anyone who wants 20 to be number one here to get started? Any 21 comments, concerns? 22 MR. KESTNER: I'm Tony Kestner. I live at 16 23 Woodhill Lane. That's right near the Town Beach. 24 I have a real problem with the density of this 23 1 project. It's more dense than the lowest zoning 2 that we have, DR-9 zone. When you move into a new 3 development, you expect to have a certain amount 4 of construction activity. But when you move to an 5 area that is basically an A-40 zone, you don't 6 expect to have to listen to 10 years of 7 construction of apartment buildings. 8 He stated this is going to be a 10-year 9 project in phases and my question is: Are we just 10 allowing this to be dragged out? So that if it 11 doesn't work out, how do we know that these 12 apartments won't be changed to a different type of 13 apartment down the road? 14 As far as the traffic goes, I was wondering 15 if this study was actually done when the Town 16 Beach was open or was the traffic count done prior 17 to the Town Beach opening? Thank you. 18 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Tony, thank you very 19 much. These are the types of concerns that we're 20 here to listen to tonight. As I mentioned, we 21 make sure we don't want to miss anything, so we 22 have a stenographer here. 23 Anyway, these are good comments, Tony. This 24 is why we're here and, you know, these are the 24 1 type things we need to hear and have people answer 2 for us. 3 Anybody else? Who wants to be next, I should 4 say? 5 MR. SCARTON: My name is Henry Scarton. I 6 live at 14 Kestner Lane in Troy. I have two 7 informational questions. I may have some 8 questions, but my first informational question is: 9 Is that book available to us now since I 10 personally didn't even know about this? 11 I know you're going to tell me it's been 12 publicly available for two months. Well, I've 13 been very busy. I didn't even hear about it til I 14 saw a note in my mailbox this afternoon. I'm here 15 even though my wife is home ill. I would like to 16 see the book. 17 Is there a copy they can circulate around 18 this room? We won't destroy it. 19 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: I guarantee you won't 20 read that tonight. 21 MR. SCARTON: As you know, Phil, I have some 22 experience in reading these documents and I want 23 to look for certain key points. 24 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: What I'm telling 25 1 you -- 2 MR. SCARTON: Is this the only public hearing 3 we're going to have? 4 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Andy will answer all 5 these. I wasn't trying to be wise, but I mean 6 that, I'm not as quick as you are. It took me 7 quite a while to get through that one. 8 MR. SCARTON: I helped to write these 9 documents. People hire me to do this. 10 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: You don't want to 11 circulate it tonight. I just assume the 12 people -- Andy, do you want to answer? 13 MR. SCARTON: Well, I'd like to know 14 specifically the things on the study on the effect 15 of property values. I have very specific 16 comments, though. Can somebody just tell us what 17 it says in there, please? 18 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Henry, I'll give you 19 my copy if you want to read it tonight or right 20 now. 21 MR. GILCHRIST: That would be fine. The 22 question was: Is there a copy so that it can be 23 looked at this evening? And this gentleman asked 24 me for my copy. My response, just so everyone 26 1 understood what the discussion was, is that's the 2 copy that I've gone through and read and annotated 3 with my own notes. So that one is not available 4 for public review and inspection. 5 There is a clean copy available, I believe, 6 and if someone would like to take a look at it, we 7 can make that available. As you said, I will 8 reiterate for the record that these documents have 9 been filed in the Town Office and Community 10 Library since the end of June and I hope everyone 11 has had an opportunity and adequate access to 12 those documents so that they can make meaningful 13 comments. I hope that that has occurred. 14 As to the public hearing, they will make a 15 determination at the end of this evening as to 16 whether to keep the public hearing open. If there 17 are issues that we need additional information on, 18 this public hearing may be held open. 19 So with that, we'll allow additional 20 comments. 21 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: How many of them 22 copies have we had made? Anyone know? We had 50 23 copies of that made. I'm quite sure you guys 24 probably know. What did that cost you? 27 1 MR. CHUDNOFF: It was $200 a pop. 2 UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: That doesn't matter. 3 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: I'm not saying that. 4 What I'm saying is -- I'm not afraid to charge 5 developers. I think we'll admit that. 6 UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Let's move on. 7 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Wait a minute now. 8 What I'm trying to tell you is I brag about how 9 polished people are in Brunswick. You don't need 10 to start fighting with me. I'm on your side, 11 guys. So what I'm trying to say here is -- wait a 12 minute. Please. 13 What I'm trying to say here is we 14 distributed -- Henry, just for your sake, I've 15 never since I've been here, and Pat's been here 16 quite a while -- made sure that every single 17 person -- I mean, we never handed out 50 copies is 18 what I'm trying to say. And they will be 19 available at the Town. We have one at the Town 20 Office, the one at the library and we've got 50 21 copies out. 22 I just want to tell you I've never heard of 23 that before. So we are working. 24 MR. ABBOTT: Has this been the largest 28 1 development in Brunswick so far? I'm Ron Abbott. 2 I live on North Lake Avenue. 3 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: The largest proposal 4 probably. What I'm saying is I'm trying to do it 5 right. 6 MR. ABBOTT: Right. Well, I understand that. 7 My problem is you're telling us how good of a job 8 you did, but none of us here seem to have heard a 9 lot more than you have. It didn't come when they 10 sent out and told me when the leaves were going to 11 be picked up. It sure didn't make it to my house. 12 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Tonight is a public 13 hearing for all you people to come and listen to 14 try to get informed. You know that. Trust me, 15 you are going to be informed. Trust me. And I 16 don't think you want me to mail that with a leaf 17 flyer, I don't think. 18 Anybody else? 19 MR. DURKIN: Joseph Durkin, Maple Avenue. 20 The Draft Environmental Impact Statement basically 21 concluded that there's no impact on the character 22 of the community and it made some selective quotes 23 from the Comprehensive Plan, selective quotes that 24 were beneficial to them saying that the 29 1 Comprehensive Plan envisions a bedroom community. 2 The Draft Environmental Impact -- excuse me. 3 The Comprehensive Plan has quite a number of 4 comments and commitments to maintaining the rural 5 character of Brunswick. I think the Draft 6 Environmental Impact Statement is deficient in not 7 adequately addressing the rural nature of 8 Brunswick. 9 If you take a look at this development and if 10 you look at the other developments that are before 11 the Board, you will see that the rural suburban 12 line, the division between the rural areas and the 13 urban areas, is being moved significantly into the 14 heart of Brunswick. 15 The Comprehensive Plan makes the point of 16 saying that there is a patchwork of hamlets, open 17 space, farm land. Once again, looking at the map 18 which shows the number of developments currently 19 before the Board, you will see that the few 20 remaining open spaces in the vicinity of Hudson 21 Hills/Brunswick Meadows will be filled up, thus 22 extending the urban sprawl significantly into 23 Brunswick. 24 I think the Draft Environmental Impact 30 1 Statement should address the open space issues in 2 much more detail than it currently does and 3 address the fact that you're changing an 4 agricultural zone, as this gentleman said, to an 5 urban development zone in effect, and that's it. 6 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thank you. Good 7 comments. 8 (Applause.) 9 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Anybody else? 10 MR. GRASSO: I'm Vito Grasso. I just want to 11 thank the Supervisor and the Board for this public 12 hearing. I also want to thank all of you for 13 coming out. I think your participation in this is 14 as important to this process as theirs. 15 I'm Vito Grasso. I live on Pinewoods Avenue. 16 I share Mr. Kestner's concern about the magnitude 17 and the density of this proposed project. It 18 seems to me, and the information that I've seen is 19 that this project -- and I understand it has a 20 10-year roll-out period -- would have the effect 21 of increasing or presumes that there's going to be 22 approximately a 20 percent increase in the 23 population of this town. That's what would be 24 necessary to support this project in the next 10 31 1 years. 2 To my recollection, there hasn't been a 10 3 percent increase in the population of this town 4 during any of the recent census periods that have 5 been tracked. So I think that would be an 6 important issue for the Town Board to look at, the 7 feasibility of the town growing at the pace and 8 magnitude that would be necessary to actually 9 support this type of project. Otherwise, we're 10 going to have a lot of vacant property in the 11 town. 12 I also share Joe's concern about the adequacy 13 of the traffic survey that was done. We've all 14 seen the impact of the work that's been done on 15 Route 7 on traffic patterns in the areas around 16 Route 7 even as far as Pinewoods Avenue and that's 17 without any additional residences or even 18 commercial property. That's just the work that's 19 been done on that road and the kinds of things 20 that have had to occur in order to divert traffic. 21 Finally, I would be concerned about the 22 projected income that might be generated by this 23 development. The developer talked about a 24 $2.3 million revenue flow in the tenth year, the 32 1 final year of this project. The cost for 2 municipal services and the cost to prepare the 3 infrastructure are going to be in the first year 4 and my question is: What are those costs? 5 How realistic is it to expect that there will 6 be that level of revenue flowing from this project 7 at any point during its life span? And what will 8 the annual cost be to the town and to the 9 taxpayers in supporting the development of this 10 project and then the maintenance of it, including 11 police and fire protection? Thank you. 12 (Applause.) 13 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Next. Come right up. 14 MS. HAYNES: My name is Susan Haynes. I live 15 at 11 Westlane Road. I, too, share concerns about 16 the tax upon our infrastructure for this project, 17 because while it may generate that amount of 18 income in taxes, we still are going to have to pay 19 a lot of out-go in terms of increased wear and 20 tear upon our roads, increased traffic on North 21 Lake Avenue, because I believe that one of the 22 proposals is to create a left-hand turn lane on 23 15th Street which would mean that traffic is going 24 to be routed through Frear Park up North Lake 33 1 Avenue. And because of the construction on Route 2 7 right now, there's a lot of traffic coming up 3 North Lake Avenue. 4 I would see a day if this project with this 5 magnitude would be considered that we would have 6 to have sidewalks, that we would have to build 7 sidewalks on North Lake Avenue in order to ensure 8 public safety. 9 Also, right now in terms of fire, we have 10 trouble attracting volunteers. With a project 11 that would grow this town by 20 percent, and this 12 is just one of five projects, then are our fire 13 services going to be adequate to handle that? I 14 would hate to see any volunteer fireman have to 15 get into a situation where they couldn't 16 adequately take care of a fire. 17 So those are some of my concerns about this 18 project. 19 (Applause.) 20 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thank you, Susan. 21 Next. Anybody else? 22 MR. FLEISHMAN: I'm Bernard Fleishman. I 23 live at 53 Colehammer Avenue off Pinewoods 24 Avenue. I think a key phrase that's been 34 1 mentioned a couple of times this evening has been 2 cumulative effect. It's not only inefficient but 3 I think kind of somewhat misleading to consider in 4 the light of the several housing projects that 5 have been proposed and, of course, the relocation 6 and expansion of the Wal-Mart facility, one gets 7 an impression of a creeping process to look at one 8 thing at a time; whereas, as these issues arise 9 one by one, we may get locked into a situation 10 where it's said "Well, you approved the last one 11 without prejudice, why not this one," et cetera, 12 et cetera? 13 I think what's needed is that the Town should 14 convene a public forum to consider the overall 15 impact of the various proposed projects. As a 16 matter of fact, they should also be considered in 17 the light of a new Comprehensive Plan, which will 18 try to designate where the Town is going to be 19 developed in the future, in what way and what 20 kinds of preservations will be maintained. 21 You know, the first Comprehensive Plan -- was 22 that in the late '90s, Phil? Among the 23 recommendations in that plan was to create a 24 Traffic Study Board or a Traffic Advisory 35 1 Board. I don't think we ever did that and I think 2 it's much to be regretted now, because the fact is 3 that the traffic capabilities concerning the 4 ability of people to go to and from major places 5 of employment, to and from the town, they're very 6 limited in this town and this is an area that 7 requires major focus. 8 So I would rather that the Town slow down and 9 halt any particular projects until we have a 10 chance to review the whole array of 11 recommendations in the light of a serious plan 12 that would ensure the future for the children and 13 their children in the town. Thanks. 14 (Applause.) 15 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thanks, Bernie. 16 Yes, come right up. 17 MR. FIVEL: My name is Norman Fivel. I live 18 on Wilrose Lane, which is right next to this 19 project. And it's been mentioned already, but the 20 cumulative impact analysis of this DEIS I find to 21 be insufficient, specifically with respect to 22 traffic. As everyone knows, there's a Wal-Mart 23 Supercenter proposed to be basically adjacent to 24 this site and the numbers that I got from the DEIS 36 1 are kind of staggering in terms of traffic. 2 At full buildout of this project, this DEIS 3 says there will be 557 new trips at the morning 4 rush hour. There will be 667 new trips at the 5 p.m. peak hour. Wal-Mart's environmental 6 assessment form indicates that they estimate an 7 additional 592 new trips at the morning peak hour 8 and an additional 608 new trips at the p.m. peak 9 hour. This is for a total of new a.m., new 10 morning, peak hour trips of 1,149. New peak p.m. 11 trips, p.m. peak hour trips, will be 1,275 12 additional. That's in addition to the traffic 13 that is currently on Route 7. 14 The DEIS says that the current volume during 15 the a.m. peak hour is 985 trips; during the 16 afternoon peak hour is 1,335 trips. If you do the 17 math, it comes out to more than a hundred percent 18 increase in the traffic on Route 7. Route 7 now, 19 just politely put, is a nightmare. 20 The proposed mitigation in this DEIS is for 21 Route 7 and 15th Street, for the City of Troy to 22 do something there to alleviate turning lanes, I 23 believe, but I don't see any proposed mitigation 24 other than a traffic light and two turning lanes 37 1 off of Betts Road. And I don't see how that helps 2 the congestion at all. 3 As a matter of fact, the traffic light is 4 going to increase the congestion. So I think in 5 terms of adding that cumulative impact that the 6 Draft Environmental Impact Statement is deficient. 7 Also, with respect to traffic, I think I 8 mentioned it, it talks about on page 44, the third 9 bullet, at completion of phase two development, 10 study area intersections are expected to operate 11 adequately with the exception of New York State 12 Route 7/15th Street and New York State Route 13 7/Betts Road intersections. The next page talks 14 about mitigation, but there is no mitigation 15 mentioned for the Betts Road intersection. 16 So, again, I believe that the DEIS is 17 insufficient in terms of addressing that traffic 18 problem. 19 Also, just briefly, I believe the DEIS says 20 that in certain cases, they will leave boundary 21 vegetation as it exists now, the existing trees 22 and vegetation but it's not specific as to where. 23 I'd like to see where they expect to maintain the 24 existing vegetation. 38 1 And then the last comment: My family's owned 2 property on Betts Road since the 1930s. They 3 farmed the property from the 1930s to the 1960s 4 when my brother and I built homes. We built on 5 the farm because of its beauty and its family 6 history. And in looking at the Comprehensive 7 Plan, it specifically stated that based on a 8 survey of residents that the two most important 9 considerations were traffic and preservation of 10 the rural character of the community. And I fail 11 to see how trading 215 acres of pristine farm land 12 for 1,100 apartment units with temporary occupants 13 who really have no stake in the town is worth the 14 trade. I don't see how that is consistent -- 15 (Applause.) 16 MR. FIVEL: I don't see how that's consistent 17 with the wishes of the town residents, the people 18 who live here now and in the Comprehensive Plan. 19 Thank you. 20 (Applause.) 21 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thank you, Norm. 22 MS. FORSTER: I'm Donna Forster. I live on 23 McChesney Avenue. As Norm said, reading through 24 the Comprehensive Plan, the two biggest concerns 39 1 have been traffic, which we all are concerned 2 about -- and I simply know many people who don't 3 even use Hoosick Road and can't really be 4 clientele of the businesses that they want because 5 of the time that it takes to even get there. And 6 this has been in the papers with business owners 7 complaining that they cannot get their clientele 8 in. 9 But the other areas is taxes which concerns 10 all of us and which is a big concern. For school 11 taxes, I went to Brittonkill School and talked 12 with Theresa Snyder about enrollment, about the 13 addition that was just opened two years ago. And 14 she said that with 200 more students -- enrollment 15 currently is 1,400. When it reaches 1,600, they 16 will need a new school. Now, we are going to be 17 paying for the addition until 2022 at a rate of 18 six percent of the school budget. With 153 total 19 students going to Brittonkill from Hudson Hills, 20 if it's completed, and with the other projects on 21 board, we are going to be looking at also paying 22 for a new school. The school budget has already 23 increased over the last three years by 25 percent. 24 So if we make Brunswick more accessible to 40 1 these developments, are we telling senior citizens 2 and moderate income homeowners that they won't be 3 able to afford to pay their school taxes? Because 4 we're going to see significant rises. That's what 5 I wish to say. 6 (Applause.) 7 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thank you, Donna. 8 Who's next? Sir, come on up. 9 MR. KEENAN: Hi. I'm Dillon Keenan. I live 10 at 62 Moonlawn and I'm going to be a little 11 mundane. Looking at some of the engineering 12 principals, my first question is: How long does 13 the public have for comments to be received after 14 this meeting? 15 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Andy, do you want to 16 comment on this? 17 MR. GILCHRIST: Sure. As we said earlier, 18 based on the number of issues raised tonight, it's 19 very likely that the public hearing will remain 20 open, meaning that there will be additional time 21 for the public to comment. Under the regulations, 22 the comment period will close 10 days after this 23 Board closes the public hearing. 24 If the Board does not close the public 41 1 hearing this evening, the comment period is 2 extended until another public hearing is convened 3 by this Board. Once the public hearing is closed, 4 there's still an additional 10 days to submit 5 written comments. 6 MR. KEENAN: So that will be decided tonight 7 or you have 10 days? 8 MR. GILCHRIST: That's correct. 9 MR. KEENAN: The first issue I have is on the 10 potable water section. Basically, the impacts 11 related to potable water can't be adequately 12 assessed without an engineering report which needs 13 to be included in the appendices. The report 14 needs to address the overall capacity, the 15 existing demand and additional fire demand. These 16 demands need to include the average daily and peak 17 demand and the adequacy of the fire zone. 18 Now, they list in table six a number of 19 370,000 gallons per day as existing capacity and 20 then they also list at full buildout a need for 21 193,250 gallons. That's over 52 percent of the 22 existing supply. That seems very significant. 23 They should investigate that a little more to see 24 the adequacy of it. 42 1 I also have questions on the waste water. 2 Basically, they're talking about -- they don't 3 include an engineer's report either. This report 4 needs to address overall capacity, existing flows 5 and additional flow by phase. This needs to 6 include the phase one development, because my 7 understanding of the way they have it hooked up 8 is they're connecting an eight-inch force main to 9 the existing eight-inch gravity sewer. That 10 extends to the pump station which has an existing 11 six-inch force main and it goes to a twelve-inch 12 gravity sewer. 13 And phase two improvements include upgrading 14 this eight-inch gravity sewer to a twelve-inch 15 gravity sewer and also the six-inch force main to 16 an eight-inch force main, yet, the adequacy is 17 never accounted for; just reasons for the 18 concern. 19 If you look at the existing pump station 20 rates, they're claiming 88 gallons per minute. 21 The phase one estimate is 200 gallons per minute. 22 The phase one and two is 414 gallons per minute. 23 Phase one through three goes up to 613, et cetera. 24 But if you look at the percentage, just the phase 43 1 one is an increase of 220 percent. The phase one 2 and two is 470 percent. And it goes up to 785 3 percent for phase one through four. That is never 4 really described how they're going to accommodate 5 that capacity. 6 And just one last note: On their municipal 7 revenue section, they state under the SEQRA final 8 scoping document, that the DEIS will include an 9 analysis of the overall and net effect of the 10 project on the town and county revenues. 11 "Increased revenues will compare to increased 12 costs, if any, for the services and utilities such 13 as schools, water, sewer, police and fire." The 14 DEIS does not adequately address these 15 requirements. It just glosses over and presents 16 revenues but not increased costs. 17 I guess I'll end there because I've probably 18 bored you enough with my technical questions. 19 (Applause.) 20 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: I want to compliment 21 people here tonight. I thought for sure what 22 would happen with this crowd is everybody would 23 get up and say "traffic and traffic and traffic." 24 I mean, we know traffic's an issue, but 44 1 everybody's done their homework and everybody's 2 got outstanding concerns and outstanding questions 3 that need to be answered and I'm impressed. 4 Next, please. Anybody else? 5 MR. SIMS: Nate Sims, 14 Balton Avenue in 6 Troy. After that really technical question, 7 mine's going to be a very philosophical one. But 8 for me, it seems like so much of this is about 9 what the community -- whether it's Brunswick or 10 Brunswick and Troy, which I think the fates of 11 those two places are completely 12 intertwined -- needs and what a very few people 13 want. And the very few people, of course, would 14 be the developers who stand to make quite a bit of 15 money from these projects. And I think that sort 16 of umbrella idea is important to keep in mind. 17 The population statistics, which many of you, 18 I'm sure, know, state that Rensselaer County has 19 barely gained any population in the last -- I 20 don't know -- 10, 20 years. And a lot of 21 developers would have you believe that building 22 things like this is really just to put people 23 somewhere, to have a place to live for all these 24 new people. 45 1 But if you look -- if you do the homework, 2 Brunswick, and Rensselaer County in general, the 3 population growth is much, much slower than this. 4 I don't know if it's 20 percent increase in the 5 size of it now, but certainly, especially when 6 combined with all the other projects that are 7 being proposed currently, it's extremely 8 unnecessary and it really comes down to money. So 9 I just wanted to put that on the record. Thank 10 you. 11 (Applause.) 12 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Who's next? Come on 13 right up, please. 14 Henry, that's my copy. Take that home with 15 you tonight. Take a look at it. 16 MS. SYMANOWITZ: My name is Susan Symanowitz. 17 I live at 416 North Lake Avenue, 13 acres, a 18 significant amount that borders this project. 19 Just a few little statements. 20 We moved from the City 21 years ago for peace 21 and quiet and a safe environment to raise our 22 children. If we wanted to live near 1,500-plus 23 people, we would move back to the City. Hudson 24 Hills will negatively affect most residents of 46 1 Brunswick. Traffic on North Lake is already bad 2 as a bypass for Hoosick Street. The road is not 3 designed for heavy use with bends and turns. We 4 have a hard time now getting out of our driveway 5 and getting our mail. 6 The Town Beach 15-mile-per-hour speed limit 7 is not being enforced. Increased traffic 8 jeopardizes walkers and bikers. How will we be 9 protected from increased vandalism and crime that 10 will come with transients? Upscale apartment 11 dwellers will not make Wal-Mart their shopping 12 destination. 13 (Applause.) 14 MS. SYMANOWITZ: We are downhill from the 15 project. What will be done about drainage? 16 Long-term construction will cause noise pollution 17 and more dirt. Town officials are elected to 18 protect the town residents and many towns in the 19 area have established moratoriums for building. 20 The Town should consider this before a large can 21 of worms is opened. 22 Brunswick is not Latham where Mr. Chudnoff 23 and Capital District Properties has 350 units. 24 (Applause.) 47 1 MS. SYMANOWITZ: Many changes to zoning 2 should be carefully considered. Growth can be 3 managed to benefit a community and all its 4 inhabitants. All it takes is real leadership and 5 people who care. Thank you. 6 (Applause.) 7 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thank you. Next. 8 Anybody else have any comments? 9 MR. MEDICUS: Heinrich Medicus, The Knoll. I 10 would say if all these projects go through, it 11 really would change the character of the town very 12 much and it also might change the Board. 13 (Applause.) 14 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Sir, come up. 15 MR. MCLEAN: Hi. My name is Sean McLean, 16 Eagle Mills, 509 Brunswick Road. Just a quick 17 comment. In lieu of like the cumulative effect of 18 all these projects, wouldn't it make more sense to 19 have a meeting at some point that will address the 20 bigger picture? Because I think what people are 21 really concerned about is not just, you know, to 22 vilify these gentlemen up here, because they want 23 to build apartments but that the overall effect 24 of, you know, at least a half dozen projects, what 48 1 it will do to Route 7. I know what it's done to 2 Route 2. They think that's the speedway now, 3 because you know, I live on a little farm, a 4 little side road. You pull out now and it's 5 Friday, New Jersey plates, you know, New York 6 City, Connecticut. I mean, these people are just 7 zipping through, because they realize that they 8 can whip out Tamarac Road. You must see them up 9 near you, Phil. 10 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Yeah. 11 MR. MCLEAN: Wave to them when they go by. 12 But, you know, they're not stopping to spend any 13 money in our town. They're not adding revenue, 14 you know. And, also, the gentleman over here said 15 that it will add, you know, 200-plus jobs, I 16 believe. For who? 17 You know, our own town, you know, office 18 building isn't even being built by local 19 contractors. So I assume you're not going to 20 have -- you're not going to call me up to build 21 fireplaces. Okay? Thank you. 22 (Applause.) 23 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Peter. 24 MR. MESKOSKEY: Pete Meskoskey, 168 Town 49 1 Office Road. I want to thank everybody here. 2 Pat, can you stand up and hold up the DEIS? 3 For all those who haven't looked at the DEIS, it 4 looks intimidating. Hold it sideways, Pat. If 5 you were to take the maps out, if you were to take 6 the traffic study out and a couple other things, 7 it's about two and a half inches thick. It looks 8 intimidating but it's not as bad as it looks. If 9 anybody wants to look at it, you should because 10 there are a lot of different things. 11 And the gentlemen from the development team, 12 please jump in if you have any questions, because 13 I have some questions about some inadequacies that 14 I'd like to answer. So I'd like to entertain any 15 questions. 16 First of all, the property value section, 17 the second from the last section, I looked through 18 the property value section and no place in the 19 property value section does it show any local 20 property value comparisons. It talks about a 21 couple theories about property values. It talks 22 about a couple other things about property values 23 but no comparisons and I've seen some property 24 value studies. It's very inadequate. And I would 50 1 like to see some defined and detailed information 2 on the property studies. It doesn't address any 3 of the high-end homes that are going to be next to 4 this that have high acreage. I'd like to see some 5 comparisons on that and how those either went down 6 or went up when apartments were put next to them. 7 Next is the fire protection. In the 8 DEIS -- and I'm going to read this section. Feel 9 free to respond -- "Police, fire and ambulance 10 services. Representatives from CDP met with 11 representatives from the local fire departments 12 on March 5th, 2005. At this meeting, the project 13 was reviewed. The departments confirmed that they 14 can serve the purpose of the development without 15 an increase in budget due in large to a backup 16 from the other fire departments within the town 17 and surrounding municipalities." 18 Now, I talked to one of the fire 19 chiefs -- and we have a meeting scheduled for 20 September 8th with the fire chiefs and the fire 21 commissioners to address these issues -- and I was 22 told that this group of people was told that no 23 promises were made and no commitments were made. 24 But yet, in the DEIS, it sounds like you got a 51 1 commitment that our local fire department can 2 handle it. 3 Right now, during the day, if there's a 4 structure fire in Brunswick, they call three 5 departments because of the lack of manning and 6 they usually have backup possibly from Troy. So 7 this again does not -- it's inconsistent as far as 8 the information is concerned. 9 Next is the waste management section. Under 10 that same section, it talks about transfer 11 station. Now, I've seen the transfer stations in 12 some of your properties and it's deplorable. I'm 13 talking about the big building that's about the 14 size of this building and they're really nasty. 15 And I think according to this, you're going to use 16 those there. So we want to take a look; possibly, 17 the Board should go look at a transfer station to 18 see what it looks like, the accommodation transfer 19 and recycle station. Again, it's inconsistent 20 with what they're showing here. 21 Then, the school tax -- Donna, help me out on 22 this. When you talked to Theresa Snyder, she said 23 that it takes three family school taxes to pay for 24 one student, correct? 52 1 MS. FORSTER: Correct. 2 MR. MESKOSKEY: Three. According to the 3 numbers that you have here on phase one, you're 4 going to pay for 354 units, $202,743 of school tax 5 which -- that number seems substantial. If you 6 take the average -- now, I'm just going to get a 7 sample here. How many people here their school 8 taxes are over $2,500? 9 (Affirmative responses.) 10 MR. MESKOSKEY: How many are under? 11 (No affirmative response.) 12 MR. MESKOSKEY: I pay $4,000. So let's 13 multiply three families, $2,500, which is low, it 14 comes to $7,500. Phase one statement says 62.8 15 people. It equates to $471,000 and you're going 16 to pay $202,000. That leaves a deficit of 17 $268,000 just on phase one, which means your taxes 18 will go up significantly. 19 (Applause.) 20 MR. MESKOSKEY: Just so the Board knows, I 21 took this from the DEIS. This is the developer's 22 information and the cumulative effects, I know 23 that everybody's talked about it and it's very 24 inadequate; traffic, congestion, everything. So 53 1 I agree with everything on cumulative effect. 2 It's very, very sketchy what's in here. There's 3 no detail. It needs to be specific. 4 And the traffic, again, on their 5 proposal -- I'm not sure if you want to help me 6 out here -- I think you proposed one car per unit? 7 Correct me if I'm wrong. Guys, you haven't spoke 8 yet tonight. 9 MR. CHUDNOFF: We did speak. We did speak. 10 MR. MESKOSKEY: I'm giving you a chance. 11 MR. HOBLOCK: Because this is the first time 12 that the public has had a chance to comment on 13 this specifically, the public hearing's clearly 14 going to be kept open. We're an advocate of that. 15 We're here tonight to listen to the concerns, 16 listen to the comments. We'll take them back. 17 We'll work with our consultants, along with the 18 Town, and address them the next round. 19 MR. MESKOSKEY: My purpose was I didn't want 20 to give misinformation. But if you go to any one 21 of your sites in Latham or anybody else's 22 apartment site, there's two and sometimes three 23 cars per family, because these people don't put a 24 lot of money in a home. They put their money in 54 1 vehicles. And the world is changing today as far 2 as how people do things and they have more and 3 more vehicles, not less. You need to take a hard 4 look at that and, again, we need detailed and 5 specific information on apartments with a number 6 of vehicles. You can go look over here at the 7 Brunswick Apartments; same deal. 8 Then, I have one last thing. I have a 9 handout. This was in the DEIS. (Handing to the 10 Board members.) 11 You guys can have one, too. (Handing to Mr. 12 Hoblock) 13 MR. HOBLOCK: Thank you. 14 MR. MESKOSKEY: You're welcome. 15 This is directly out of the DEIS. I'm going 16 to read this. And this is Mr. Chudnoff. It's 17 pretty impressive what Mr. Chudnoff has done in 18 his career. I know the Board has read it. I'm 19 going to read it, because the public here has not 20 red this. 21 "Capital District Properties is an 22 experienced, fully integrated real estate 23 development firm that specializes in the 24 acquisition, development, construction and 55 1 management of residential communities throughout 2 New York State. CDP's principals bring with them 3 decades of real estate development, construction, 4 finance and management experience. Headquartered 5 in Latham, New York, CDP was formed for the 6 purpose of developing multi-family communities in 7 the Central and Upstate New York regions. 8 "CDP was built on the foundation that 9 seasoned real estate professionals working 10 together with progressive communities can bring 11 quality communities to quality communities." 12 And then it goes on to Mr. Chudnoff. You 13 have a pretty impressive record as far as what 14 you've done. I'm not going to continue to read 15 that next paragraph. It's very impressive. I 16 know most of the people in the room haven't read 17 this. 18 If you turn to the next page, it also lists 19 some of Mr. Chudnoff's different apartments that 20 he's been involved in over the years. Am I 21 correct in saying over the years or currently 22 involved in? 23 MR. CHUDNOFF: Over the years and currently. 24 MR. MESKOSKEY: Okay. And it says at the 56 1 top -- I want the Board to note this -- "The 2 following is a list of selected multi-family 3 projects Mr. Chudnoff has been intimately involved 4 in the development of." 5 Now, there's some here from California, 6 Pennsylvania, South Carolina, New York and 7 Virginia. So I'm going to take your word those 8 are pretty good ones; haven't seen those. 9 I have a question and this is on Hudson 10 Preserve in Latham. Exactly where is Hudson 11 Preserve in Latham? Because I can't find it. 12 MR. CHUDNOFF: Route 2. It's on Route 2. 13 MR. MESKOSKEY: Okay. 14 MR. CHUDNOFF: Kitty-corner to the K-Mart, 15 immediately adjacent to St. Patrick's Cemetery. 16 MR. MESKOSKEY: So it's behind Lake Shore & 17 Beverwyck, abuts or adjoins Lake Shore & 18 Beverwyck? I was looking in Latham, that's why -- 19 MR. CHUDNOFF: It doesn't abut it, but it is 20 in that neck of the woods, about 400 acres in 21 total. 22 MR. MESKOSKEY: I just want to read a couple 23 of these explanations of things he's been 24 personally involved with. 57 1 "Village One Apartment community is 2 strategically located in the heart of the Capital 3 Region offering convenient access to the area's 4 major shopping, entertainment and business areas. 5 The apartment community includes 340 6 well-appointed units and well-manicured grounds 7 complete with community tennis courts and 8 resort-style pool." 9 It goes on to describe Valley View, Beverwyck 10 and Lake Shore Apartments. Well, I went to take a 11 look and I ask this Town Board to go take a look, 12 but those apartments are not the nicest apartments 13 in Albany. They are in need of drastic repair. 14 It says on here they have resort-style pools. 15 They have a pool at each one of these, but it's 16 not resort-style. That information in here is 17 misleading. 18 If somebody were to read this and didn't 19 know -- okay, I talked to the mailman at Village 20 One and their major problem down there is that 21 they evict people. And he told me the problem is 22 when they get somebody in a unit, they end up with 23 two and three families in the same unit and they 24 have to evict them. I'd like to know your 58 1 eviction rate in those apartments. 2 MR. CHUDNOFF: It's very difficult for me to 3 respond to commentary which has a demeaning 4 content and is inaccurate. You're making 5 statements and I'm not going to respond to 6 statements that have no evidence. 7 MR. MESKOSKEY: Can you explain to me what 8 intimately involved means? It's in the DEIS. 9 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Wait a minute. Andy. 10 MR. GILCHRIST: I know these are legitimate 11 concerns for the public. It's not a debate or 12 question and answer session. If there's 13 information that anyone in the public wants 14 additional information on, place that comment on 15 the record and I know the applicant will respond 16 to it. And as indicated, the public hearing will 17 remain open. Additional information will be 18 supplied by the applicant. You'll be able to 19 respond to that. 20 MR. MESKOSKEY: I invite anyone, Board 21 members, to go down to any of those apartment 22 complexes and see the disarray. We do not want 23 that in Brunswick. I mean, he's got a great 24 record, but based on this, take a look at those 59 1 apartments. 2 (Applause.) 3 MR. MESKOSKEY: I would just like to conclude 4 that we have a lot of information, we have 5 attorneys, we have the DEIS, but this is about 6 people and what this is going to boil down to is 7 five Board members saying yea or nay on the 8 information and we've got more information coming. 9 I don't know if you're going to close this tonight 10 or not, but it's supposed to be based on accurate, 11 respectable information. The information that 12 I've seen is not accurate and it's deceptive. 13 Thank you. 14 (Applause.) 15 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: It would not be a bad 16 idea for people to look at the Hudson Preserve, 17 the new apartment complex out of Watervliet. Is 18 that front entrance open, Marvin? 19 MR. CHUDNOFF: Yes. 20 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: The Hudson Preserve, 21 drive in there and you'll see exactly what he's 22 talking about here. I just thought I'd tell -- 23 UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Why would anyone want 24 to see -- 60 1 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: You turn right by the 2 cemetery. You should go over to look at the 3 Hudson Preserve. I mean, that's exactly what he's 4 talking about building here so that would show 5 you. 6 Henry. 7 UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: It's in Watervliet, not 8 in Latham or Albany as those are indicated. 9 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Wait a minute now. 10 MR. CHUDNOFF: Sir, that is inaccurate. 11 Check with your mailman. That is inaccurate. 12 UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Sir, I've worked for 13 UPS for 34 years. That address is Watervliet. 14 MR. CHUDNOFF: That's an inaccurate 15 statement. It is misleading for you to say to the 16 general public that you want an honest and clear 17 dialogue and you say things that are inaccurate. 18 It is in the Town of Colonie. 19 UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: I'm glad you understand 20 your information is misleading. 21 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Come on now. 22 MR. CHUDNOFF: It's either a matter of fact 23 or it is not, sir. It is in the Town of Colonie. 24 UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: It's in the City of 61 1 Watervliet. 2 MR. CHUDNOFF: It's in the Town of Colonie. 3 It pays taxes to the Colonie North School 4 District. It pays taxes to the Town of Colonie. 5 It has nothing to do with Watervliet. You are 6 again factually incorrect. Check your facts. 7 Give us the questions and we'll respond to them, 8 but don't mislead the audience. 9 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: So go through 10 Watervliet, take a left. 11 All right. Henry. 12 MR. SCARTON: My name is Henry Scarton. I 13 live at 14 Kestner Lane. I'm also the director of 14 the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute's Laboratory 15 for Noise and Vibration Control Research. I have 16 been hired as an expert witness and have helped to 17 write such documents for other people. I've also 18 been hired by Concerned Citizens of East Nassau, 19 for example, where I was the principal consultant. 20 And you may recall that the Lane Mine was not 21 permitted because, among other things, of the 22 noise impacts. 23 Now, let me comment directly on the noise 24 study which took me a while to find. It's on page 62 1 63. And I'll read what it says. It says -- and 2 I'm not talking about construction noise, which is 3 another section. I'm talking about steady-state 4 noise. We have over 1,000 units operating, and 5 let me give you a little background. 6 Many times in the fall and in the spring, my 7 phone rings and they want to hire me to do a noise 8 study. Why? Because the windows go open and the 9 air conditioners go on for some people and other 10 people like to leave their windows open, et 11 cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You're going to 12 have 1,000 air-conditioning units, air-handling 13 units, running over here in an area which is 14 basically a valley. And you're going to have 15 temperature inversion at night. 16 What that does, in case you don't understand 17 that, you have continuity and density and the 18 sound bounces off the temperature inversion and 19 concentrates the sound in this area. So the 20 background level, and I have measured this many 21 times under many circumstances, in the absence of 22 tree frogs, which bring it up to about 50 23 decibels -- normally, we're talking about 35 to 40 24 decibels, sound pressure level, at the microphone 63 1 location. 2 You turn on 1,000 air-conditioning, 3 air-handling units and you'll have a temperature 4 inversion and I can assure you that noise level is 5 going to come up. What is this going to be? 6 Well, you have to sort of check it out. I can 7 assure you it's not going to be 45 decibels. It's 8 going to be closer to 60, 65, maybe 68, 70 9 decibels. The calculations are fairly 10 straightforward. 11 So the air-handling units in the summer, 12 which is not studied at all in this and I just 13 scanned through this document -- I have to write 14 these, so -- I sort of help to write these so I 15 know where to look. It's not discussed at all. 16 Secondly, lighting impact, lighting trespass. 17 Mrs. Symanowitz is not going to hear these tree 18 frogs chirping anymore. You're going to hear the 19 air-handling units. You're going to have 20 luminaires on each of these units, more than one, 21 plus headlights of cars. That's going to add a 22 lighting trespass issue so that you will no longer 23 be able to see the stars out there. You'll just 24 be able to see the glow from the lighting of this 64 1 complex and it's going to be huge. 2 Third: I happen to live at 14 Kestner Lane 3 and I can tell you right now that the traffic is 4 horrendous. You're getting the people coming 5 right down North Lake Avenue and, now, we're going 6 to have a thousand cars, maybe more, depending on 7 how many coming. It's impossible. You're going 8 to have to put a four-lane highway through Frear 9 Park. 10 (Applause.) 11 MR. SCARTON: Finally, I personally pay 12 $4,000 in educational taxes -- I happen to have 13 Troy taxes -- and over $3,000 in property taxes 14 totaling to $7,000. Now, I was not happy when my 15 taxes went up in one year $1,000 and I think that 16 happened to a lot of us in this room. 17 (Applause.) 18 MR. SCARTON: And, now, they're going to 19 pay -- what did I see? -- $1,500 taxes. And I 20 should check those numbers. I'm to be careful 21 here. But it's going to be the tax -- they're not 22 going to be able to be paying taxes. And I'm 23 sorry, we're going to be attracting an occasional 24 drug dealer in there and other transients that are 65 1 going to lower our property values. We have these 2 beautiful homes out there. Dr. Symanowitz is one; 3 the whole Kestner estate out there is beautiful. 4 I moved here 15 years ago. I love here. 5 It's beautiful. We're kind of ruining the 6 country. I have three-quarters of an acre. 7 Everybody has large lots. We're going to put them 8 into this? 9 Finally, I looked at that plan and I see 10 absolutely no area for storage space for those 11 units. Where are you going to put all the 12 storage, all those people moving in? I mean, 13 1,600 square feet, it's horrible. Thank you very 14 much. 15 (Applause.) 16 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Henry, I owe you an 17 apology. You did know where to look in that book. 18 I didn't know where to start. 19 MR. SCARTON: Page 63. 20 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: I started from the 21 beginning. 22 Anybody else? Herb, come on up. 23 MR. HEADWELL: My name is Herb Headwell. I 24 live at 196 Town Office Road. I came to this 66 1 community in 2001, brought my family; Stacey, my 2 two kids are out playing outside. Over the last 3 four and a half years, I invested myself in this 4 community. I spent millions of dollars on Town 5 Office Road bringing it back, bringing the horse 6 business back that was there started by Maynard 7 Kessler in the '70s. And the Schaffers of the 8 Schaffer Brewing Company had many world champion 9 horses off Misty Hills Farm. 10 As far as the storage problem, I'm going to 11 be building storage units in Raymertown so that 12 will solve the storage problem. 13 In any event, my biggest plea is that there's 14 many nice people and wonderful people in this 15 community. Pete Meskoskey, the Gidenbergs down 16 there, Phil Herrington, his brother Ken, wonderful 17 people. My plea to this Board is this: Please, 18 when you make any decisions regarding anything of 19 this magnitude, it would be very appreciative if 20 you would just come talk to the people who vested 21 themselves in this community. I've only done it 22 four and a half years. But part of the reason why 23 I picked this area was the rural nature, the 24 country setting. I wanted my kids to be raised in 67 1 a nice farm-type environment. 2 And like I said, I spent millions of dollars. 3 My taxes are well over $20,000 in property tax. 4 I'm a farmer. The key thing is that the people 5 are vested. I'm just giving you my case. I'm 6 sure there's many, many more here who have lived 7 here much longer than I have who feel like that 8 and that we really want to be talked to. Come to 9 see us and listen to what we have to say 10 personally, because these people aren't vested. 11 We're vested. And anything that happens, as 12 you've seen here, is going to affect us. 13 Now, I'm Republican. I'm all about 14 development, so on and so forth. Now, let's say 15 this thing goes through. I'm in a very difficult 16 position. I have 200 acres on Town Office Road. 17 If this thing goes through, I'm going to want the 18 next one. I'm going to want the 700 apartment 19 building complex built on Misty Hills and I think 20 that needs to be considered, is that I'm vested 21 here and put all this hard work into this road and 22 this town and this whole thing here; that, you 23 know, if I had to cash out, I think that needs to 24 be considered. 68 1 But that's the thing. We're all hard-working 2 people. A lot of us probably don't have time to 3 be here. We have a lot of responsibilities and, 4 you know, we don't get to read things, see things. 5 And another question I have is: Where are 6 the other 48 copies of the document? 7 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Where are the rest of 8 the copies? 9 MR. HEADWELL: You said there's 50. 10 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Each Planning Board 11 got them. Zoning Board got them. 12 MR. HEADWELL: They're all distributed. 13 Okay. That's basically all. 14 (Applause.) 15 MS. STEINBACH: My name is Connie Steinbach. 16 I live at 5 Lindsay Drive. I've been in Brunswick 17 for 49 years. Now you all know how old I am. I 18 think I'd like to just say that my major concern 19 is the fact that it is an apartment complex as 20 opposed to single-family homes. I do think that 21 single-family homes are much more closer to what 22 the character of Brunswick is and what I would 23 like it to stay and, basically, that is my 24 concern. 69 1 Now, I've never done this before so I may be 2 asking something that's obvious to everyone else, 3 but I assume that Mr. Kestner and the consultant 4 that he hired is going to look after my interest. 5 So, therefore, I was wondering: Is there a 6 report that gets produced and is it made available 7 to everyone to read so I understand what you're 8 analyzing when you decide what to do with this? 9 (Applause.) 10 MR. KESTNER: Yes, we will do a report on the 11 document. Mark Gregory from Transportation 12 Concepts will do a report on the traffic. We have 13 had meetings so far with the state engineer. We 14 had three individuals from the central office over 15 along with the City of Troy, city engineer and the 16 county highway engineer and we have discussed the 17 traffic. We will prepare our thoughts on the 18 information that is contained in this document 19 that will be available for you to look at. 20 In addition to that, we are getting comments, 21 as the Supervisor indicated at the start of the 22 meeting, from the state agencies; namely, New York 23 State DEC is going to assist in looking at the 24 stormwater management sections and also the 70 1 wetland section. DOT is planning on issuing a 2 letter in regard to the traffic issues both in 3 Brunswick and also some situations down in the 4 City of Troy. 5 So we're going to get input from all of these 6 various agencies in addition to our comments. 7 We'll put them all together and we will give them 8 back to the applicant. 9 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Thanks, Mark. 10 Anybody else? 11 MR. GORDON: I'm Rickie Gordon. I live on 12 Moonlawn Road. My concern is -- I went to a 13 couple of other meetings and one of the big 14 concerns was the minimum lot per house is 15 considerable in the Town of Brunswick and I don't 16 understand why a mass development like this would 17 be approved versus single-family units that could 18 be put on decent-sized lots with a lot more 19 controlled development. I don't think there 20 should be an exception made for apartments. Thank 21 you. 22 (Applause.) 23 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: I'm not sure. I bet 24 the way it's zoned at the moment over here, if 71 1 you're just wondering, if somebody wants to put 2 single-family homes in that area, probably about 3 150 homes would go in there with the current 4 zoning roughly, just to give you an idea. 5 MR. MCLOUGHLIN: My name is Bill McLoughlin. 6 I live at 16 Lindsay Drive. I have two concerns. 7 One is, as you had said, the traffic. Traffic on 8 North Lake Avenue has really greatly increased, 9 but I'm concerned because we have a lot of runners 10 and people who ride bikes. In fact, I think it 11 was about five years ago, a young lady was riding 12 her bike and she got hit by a mirror off of a 13 truck going by. It's so tight in there and the 14 width of the road is very narrow and the property, 15 as you get into our area, is very close on North 16 Lake Avenue. 17 So I think there is a problem traffic-wise 18 and coming down through the Frear Park, a lot of 19 people go in and don't go over to Hoosick Street, 20 cut down to Frear Park, Oakwood Avenue and down 21 Hoosick. They don't go 20 miles an hour. They go 22 40 miles an hour, 50 miles an hour down through 23 there. I don't know. The police ought to get off 24 Hoosick Street and go over to Frear Park. They'd 72 1 make out much better over there. 2 My second problem is I had been to the Town 3 Board before and we had talked about planned 4 development districts. I certainly hope that the 5 Town will be a lot more restrictive in a planned 6 development district. You know, the problem that 7 we had and we were told by the town attorney that 8 they couldn't do anything about a planned 9 development district if there was a problem. 10 We had, I think it was, two or three public 11 hearings and people expressed a lot of opinions 12 like what's going on here and then it got down to 13 a final basis and the people were assured that 14 certain things were going to happen and we -- you 15 know, that really hasn't happened to a full 16 extent. 17 The Town Board had several things that they 18 insisted were going to be on there, but we 19 discussed some of these. We went to some of the 20 Town Board meetings. 21 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: When was that? 22 COUNCILMAN SALVI: Deed restriction. 23 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: Deed restriction on 24 Homeowner's Association. 73 1 MR. MCLOUGHLIN: No, no. That's also planned 2 development district. 3 COUNCILMAN SALVI: You're talking about deed 4 restriction. 5 MR. MCLOUGHLIN: Well, there were deed 6 restrictions but also, at the time, discussions 7 about single-family homes and other ideas and that 8 was not adhered to in the Town Board and the town 9 attorney advised there was nothing he could do 10 because it was in the district but also -- 11 COUNCILMAN SALVI: Well, the attorney's not 12 here. If I remember the case, there's some 13 problem with deed restrictions, certain things you 14 can do in Mark's development. Maybe you can 15 handle that better. 16 MR. KESTNER: I think the comment was that 17 the developer can place certain things in the deed 18 that are in addition to the town zoning. And when 19 there is a violation of those covenants, then it's 20 not the Town's responsibility to enforce deed 21 restrictions that may be more restrictive than the 22 town zoning. If there's a zoning violation, then 23 the Town would enforce that. 24 MR. MCLOUGHLIN: I'm telling you the case of 74 1 where a single-family dwelling ended up with five 2 different people living in the place and renting 3 rooms in the place, but what the case was, there 4 was a public hearing and people were assured that 5 things were going to take place. If there are 6 minutes of that meeting, I'm sure if you go back 7 there, you'll find there were a lot of things that 8 people, in fact, were -- there was supposed to be 9 a one-way street in there. That's never occurred. 10 And it was said, "We will definitely take care of 11 that," and it was never taken care of. 12 That's the point. I think if we have a 13 planned development district, I think the Town 14 Board has to insist that things take place and 15 follow up with it, because I think we were on the 16 basis that the Town was going to take care 17 of -- the Town Board spoke that they were going to 18 have these things take place and it settled the 19 peoples' concerns, like our concerns here. And 20 there are minutes. I believe there are minutes. 21 COUNCILMAN SALVI: I just remember the one 22 about the deed restrictions. I don't remember the 23 other meeting. Yes. 24 MR. MCLOUGHLIN: But there were public 75 1 hearings. In fact, we got into the same problem. 2 We were going to hold it over at the town office 3 and they held it out at the barn. That was so 4 big, there was more people than this there. There 5 were more people than this. 6 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: When was that? 7 MR. MCLOUGHLIN: That was 15 years ago, I 8 think. 9 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: 15, 20 years ago. 10 MR. MCLOUGHLIN: Yes. My point is that if we 11 have a planned development district and you people 12 believe that there are certain things that should 13 take place, I would hope that they would be, you 14 know, adhered to. 15 SUPERVISOR HERRINGTON: I totally agree with 16 you. Planned development districts, the Town 17 Board can control the density. We can tell them 18 what to put in there and where to put them, 19 cluster them, so on and so forth. The Town Board 20 has a lot of control over planned development 21 districts and the good thing these days with 22 computers is you can look up them records pretty 23 fast. And, now, every development that is built 24 in the Town of Brunswick, we insist that they have